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Fucking: Until now, the source is based on the characteristics of the current earphones when it comes to earphones. Conversely, major sauces are not. In the case of a source that is used by signal processing by signal processing, it is possible to use the signal processing. This is not the only thing we say right, but we think it's probably a tide. Among the very major products, there are already such products, so I think some companies actually have a similar way of thinking. This is the future that already exists. There is a new one, but I think that you will have to do this.
Hemp villas: Considering the way you feel when you listen to it as natural or unnatural, humans still live in a natural world, so we enjoy listening to natural music. ZE8000 is going in that direction. I think that the world of TV has become more natural from SD to 8K, and the ZE8000 from an unnatural place is completely linked to the new tide of TWS earphones.
This time, the word 8k Sound has been created by referring to this ZE8000. The idea is quite amazing. How was this made by the crispness?
Hosoo: Hamazaki was once involved in 8K images, but I was also released by the NHK Broadcasting Technology Research Institute every year, and it was a small monitor, but I was impressed when I first saw 8k. But I don't know, or I feel better than my own perception. Moreover, since I saw it quite close, when I entered the 8K image in the entire field, I was confused that it was a good video when I saw a full HD until then. 。
When I talked about that, there were quite a few people who thought the same thing in the company. The ZE8000 is divided into a person who says that even if he listens inside the company, he says that it is the best immediately, and a person who says, "I don't know if it's good." But if you listen to it for a few days, it's still good. This feeling is close when you see 8K images.
In fact, there are times when the words that accurately express the tone and space of the ZE8000, no matter how much discussions were discussed. It may be because it is made logically, but it may be rather logical, but the words do not apply to the high range. There was a place where everyone made sense by creating the word 8K Sound.
Hemp villas: The video also went to 2k from SD, went to 4K, went to 8K, and various things changed. The resolution has changed, the bit depth is 8 bits to 12bit, and the Dynamic range is vast with HDR, and the color reproduction range is called gamma, but this also spreads. The gradation, contrast, resolution, resolution, and color reproducibility are evolving.
In particular, the difference between SD and 8K is the superficial feeling on the surface, but the gradation is the most different. It is more sensitive than the gradation that can be represented by bit. How much gradation shadows are included. Moreover, it is 8K, not a large area, but how small it is in. So when you look at it, it's really impressive. A supermarket may be attached to the word reality or reality.
Hemp villas: Actually, when I first heard 8k Sound, I didn't know what I was saying. However, when you actually listen, there is a great difference in shades of sound from fine sound to loud sound along with the natural feeling. Moreover, the shade is multi -layered due to various dimensions. So there is a sound that I haven't heard yet. This is the word "I have never heard", and it is just 8k Sound when something in the content came out properly. I think it came out from an analogy of 8K images, but I think it represents a good sound. It's 8K -like gradation, especially the gradation of color. The tone is well called, it is colored. It often makes differences in places such as the color and color concentration of the content.
Fucking: The feeling of depth in the tone may be close to the gradation feeling you are talking about. This was the first part we experienced with earphones. This is also one of the basis of 8K Sound.
Hemp villas: The place where the detailed information has a sense of life is important, and when you watch a good 8K program, you will feel vivid life in the picture. There is also such a place ZE8000, which is also a song called "Schubert: Symphony No. 8" Infinished "" by Boston Symphony, conducted by Eugen Joffum, which I often use in reference. No matter who plays, "Unfinished" is a wonderful song, especially the bulge of the cello that plays the first melody. There is a sound image, and when the sound comes out when it comes out of it, the sound spreads in a three -dimensional and bulging balloons, that is, the sound spreads in a spherical shape. The flow of sound, the sound of the sound, and the dynamic space movements are very good. It doesn't mean that ZE8000 is expressed, but the three -dimensional effect of the original sound image in the sound source is finally heard with TWS earphones. How about making it and listening?
Beach: I have talked about the space right now, but what I was particularly impressed with on the 8K display was that I felt a very depth even though it was a plane. In the direction of depth, the current technology is a technique that comes out with the left and right congestion rags called stereoscopic, and in a sense, it becomes a fairly gimmick depth. Rather, on the 8K flat display, you can feel a sense of depth very naturally. The story that Professor Asakura is talking about now, the feeling of gradation of the ZE8000 tone, the very natural place is probably the same as our vision that feels depth on the 8K display. I think. We give nature, and the listener feels like that.
We still have a lot to do, but when I first listened to the sounds that came out of ZE8000, I felt that I wouldn't have an experience close to the speakers. It was a different experience that could not be represented by the words such as the head of the head or the contour, but I thought that the sound that makes it easier for me to feel the contents of the music source has finally come out.
Hemp villas: The ZE8000 said that sound emotions appear well, and the player's thoughts came out, but recently I often listen to "Schubert: Piano 5 -fold" Trout "". The version of Anne -Sophie Mutor playing the violin and Danir Triponov playing the piano is extremely interesting.
What is interesting is that all the players are playing guts, thinking, "I'm God" and "I'm the king." Even when Anne -Sophie Mutter comes out, I feel like a queen, and I come out so much, and the Danir Triponov is also a person who won the Tchaikovsky Competition, and the piano stands out. Also, at that time, it's a cello, when it is a viola, it comes out. In the meantime, the obligat is a bit. For example, when Danile is playing the melody, the obligat is done by Mutor, but it is an Obli where Mutor is the leading role.
What has long been said for a long time is that there are two things to succeed or fail when the masters gather. It's good when it goes well, but when you fail, everyone will be me. I am just out. In ZE8000, you can really understand the thoughts of five performers. Without expressiveness, it will be a beautiful music like something unified.
Another thing that this album is the best is that there is a song like that of such a different character, and on the contrary, there are songs that have been very unified. That is "Schubert: Serenade". In contrast to "trout", no one is a leading role and forms a world of Schubert. I don't know if the producer intends or the performer, but I think it's a musician's idea. The difference and thoughts really come out when listening to ZE8000.
After all, the expressive power is extremely varied and the amount of information is extremely varied, but the earphone is not operated. After all, Omoto's thing comes here as it is, just like 8K. However, even if you say 8K, the 8K broadcast we are watching is compressed about 1/100 with compression after compression, so there are some things that say "What is this 8K?" Looking at the band's video, it is completely different. Instead of such a compressed 8K, ZE8000 tells me that it feels like a really fresh video just taken by NHK.
Fucking: For those who are developing, people who have been working on signal processing at a major company have moved, and the people who did acoustic engineering at school are new graduates, but in fact Hamazaki is a boss. It is a form that is not (laughs). It is an organization that does not have a boss, and there are only people who do not listen to what they say, but it is not Mutter's "trout", but I am a team that I am ...
Hemp villas: If you put it together.
Beach: No, it's not summarized (laughs). With Hosoo's intention, FINAL has no research plan. You don't do this so far, but they are doing it from your own perspective. That is the environment where you can talk from the same perspective as the first -year adult students who came in last year. Because they obviously they know the latest than me. I was studying at university 40 years ago (laughs). It would be very interesting to talk freely.
However, in the event where you have to judge something, you need to say "stop this" or "do this", so I guess I say something from my experience. Probably, there is almost no such research and development style of other companies. Furthermore, it is fresh to be able to talk with people in sales and back offices. We don't have the consciousness of "we are research." ZE8000 also moved his hand, but the people of the company belong to the company. Isn't that a very unique point of this FINAL company?
Hemp villas: R & D and technical development are something like one climate for each company. There are some places where you have to decide your goals and do your best, and you have to do practical research. However, in the case of FINAL, research and development is very important in terms of culture.
Beach: Actually, at first I was confused at first.
Hemp villas: It's much different from NHK (laughs). What kind of work style is specifically?
Beach: Generally, R & D makes planning for each short, medium, long -term and period. I went to the research toward it, but I also joined the company, first made a plan and talked like "Would you like to do this?"
Hemp villas: As before, you first made a plan.
Beach:yes. However, it does not move at all as planned. Nevertheless, despite the changes in various situations, there is a mountain that intensively to research and develop for commercialization. Towards the mountain, everyone prepares various drawers, and when they go, climb the mountain at a stretch while giving ideas. Usually, I put a story for that, but it is working with a different vector on an individual.
Hemp villas: Is the story decided by the individual?
Beach: The details are decided by individuals. There is a direction in the whole, but there is no plan to clearly say, "Let's do this in this quarter." Now I will study this area by attacking this area.
Hemp villas: It's not about doing your best in one tied, but in the direction you want to do spontaneously.
Beach:I agree. I think the word is different, but I think it's an environment where you can deepen what you are interested in.
Hemp villas: Speaking of the story, do you say something like "this is good" as a boss?
Beach: I'm not a boss (laughs). I am a fourth grade in this company, but I have the same eyes as the first grader. There is no order system in which someone moves by instructing something. In a conversation with Hosoo, I'm talking about "Let's do this kind of thing" or "FINAL is strong in the technology in this area, so let's use it," but it's not like this to everyone in R & D. 。
Hemp villas: 4 years later, do you find that kind of method is effective?
Beach: It's effective. To be honest, research takes time, so products come out during the research. This research on ZE8000 has not been over yet. From a pure research perspective, there is a place where "Please wait a moment to get this technology" (laughs).
However, it is often called brain development in the company, but I think about the story in my head, make a hypothesis, and think about the mechanism. If you think you can do that, you'll want to put it out as a product. After that, we have to make a dissertation, so we will make a science and technology evidence.
For example, in the E500 product, we researched and developed a product that can be heard as it is with the so -called imagive binaural sound with the content creator intended, but it has been published on the logic. It was October 2022 three years later.
Hemp villas: How long does it usually cost?
Beach: Basic research takes at least a few years to issue a dissertation. The ICA (International Society of International Society) held in Korea in October 2022 was held once every three years, so it was good to be in time. However, it would probably not be forgiven by an ordinary company that the dissertation was delayed than the product (laughs).
Hemp villas: There is an invisible sense of unity, and researchers can do what they want to do. But commercialization is the most important step. Commercialization and basic development are well linked. Naturally, there are also research related to ZE8000, so if you go to a more advanced research, you will spin it out again.
Beach: Yes.
Hemp villas: Rather than simply making it as a product plan, there are places like the results presentation of R & D. interesting.
Beach: That's right. It's like having customers evaluate before the evaluation of the conference. We are also very rewarding, saying, "The reaction we wanted" and "Is that such an evaluation?"
Hemp villas: You said it was worthwhile, but I don't usually see commercialization, so the basicsThe researchers are not rewarding (laughs). I've heard a story like why I'm doing research.
Beach: A large company has different organizations for research, product development, sales, marketing and division. In the first place, development and research are also difficult to compatibility. We say R & D, but we have basic research, product development, and we make our own content and put them on Twitter. I had never played with Twitter until I entered this company.
Hemp villas: It's interesting (laughs). Hamasaki in the world is doing Twitter.
Beach: In that sense, it's somehow interesting, and FINAL is easy to move. Conversely, if you make a plan, you will be tied up. Now, the speed of R & D is extremely fast, so it may not be possible to decide one year ago in one year. But what I did in the past would be useful. I have to continue it, and if I notice while watching the trend, try it. So, the content of the research is uneven, but in total, it has a feeling that it is definitely going in one direction.
Hemp villas: The story of the ears or the brain's reaction (reaction) is often not known yet. The field of acoustic psychology is a recent story. As we go deep, new knowledge comes out, and we will commercialize what we have learned from R & D. It's not a PDCA, but it feels like that cycle has been made.
Fucking: I have been working on the ODM business, and I have been able to see various things, such as how to do a major research and development, and do basic research, but I can not make it easy to make it. After that, if you do what humans think is interesting, and if you think, "I'll take a year, but it doesn't make sense," probably more than a few tens of times different. Yo.
Hemp villas: No, right?
Fucking: Everyone thinks about creating such a product. The future will be such a technical tide. How to actually do it can be decided by yourself, and it also makes help. A girl in my second year after entering, tells Hamasaki, "Please do this." I think it's "great". The amazing thing is that Mr. Hamasaki also says, "I understand!" (Laughs).
Hemp villas: I'll do it (laughs)
Beach: Maybe I'm not a fundamental researcher. Of course I do research, but the first of my career is recording. The music recording is made instantly while using a musician on the other side and using recording technology. I guess that habit is attached. So, I'm a good age, so it's the most disappointing to say, "I'm good. I'll do it" (laughs). I want to take the initiative in carrying luggage.
After all, the viewpoints of young people are very interesting. The knowledge I have is different, and my way of thinking has changed. The other day, when I talked to Professor Kamekawa of Tokyo University of the Arts (published on FINAL LAB), it was talked about what was different from when I was a student, and in the past there was no computers that could always be used by myself. We were convinced that it was the different thing now.
What is surprising is how to use the search. We have been reading books, and we have been thinking while accumulating knowledge little by little. I search right now. There are various tools in the world for signal processing, so we use them in combination. This ability is overwhelmingly good. We are no longer an enemy.
After that, if we combine our experience and which direction to go, we think that young researchers will be able to do it happily.
Fucking: I think we need tools to discuss in the same position. Regarding the measurement of characteristics, we are completely making software and can almost emulate on PCs in advance. Then, I look at the same thing and listen to the same sound, so there is not much discussion.
Hemp villas: It's common.
Fucking: When it comes to DSP, it took 80 % to 90 % to build a program to experiment in the first place, and only about 10 % of the actual trial and error was taken. We have introduced a pretty good tool, reducing the number of programs to write programs by about 90 %. I also introduced a physical simulator. If I wanted to use this simulator to simulate in various ways, some people who were simulating fluids at the graduate school of the University of Tokyo came in. You can use a simulator (laughs).
Hemp villas: It's perfect.
Fucking: Sometimes, "Why is such a perfect person coming in?" So what I have to do is environmental improvement. In order for young people to grow freely, they do not restrict the use of Python programming language. Depending on the company, "Python cannot be used because it cannot be used general purpose." But we can do it freely because we can be personal. Actually, the technical meeting is out, and I don't know much about two -thirds (laughs). I don't know ...
Hemp villas: If you know the basic direction.
Fucking:yes. In order to know the direction of the research, I am listening while thinking, "Where is the budget?" If I didn't know from the middle of the matrix calculation, a newcomer who just entered explained in Power Point, "It's okay if you only look here."
Recently, a big company has changed jobs, and some new graduates are not always audio. But even if you don't do audio, sound is physics and mathematics. I think that it is an environment where you can suddenly play an active part like a person who was doing fluid simulation even if you did not study sound when you were a student.
Hemp villas: Today, I told you various interesting stories. To conclude, it's still out of management. I thought that ZE8000 was generated from the management, that is, the company itself. Products are not only collecting technology, but research and research and development are very important, and basic research is very important. And it's a basic research that makes you happy. I have the image that applied research is more fun, but FINAL has a basic research led to applied research, which leads to commercialization. Not only that, there is an environment where you can do it without much restrictions. How to get in power is completely different from making what you really want to do.
The accumulation of such a thing appears as a product. From the way of such a company and the way company management itself, outstanding products such as ZE8000 come out. I was theoretically convinced of that area.
Fucking:thank you. I feel happy to be praised.
Hemp villas: The masterpiece does not end with this, you can do basic research, and at a certain time it will come out together. Thank you today.
Hamasaki & Hosoo:thank you very much.
Speech
[1] StereoscopicStereoscopic (STEREOSCOPIC) or stereoscopic 3D (STEREOSCOPIC 3D) is a technology that produces one pair of images independently on both eyes and creates a three -dimensional view that makes you feel depth, but a natural three -dimensional effect is obtained. It is difficult. In general, special three -dimensional glasses are required to present independent visual signals on the left and right eyes. Three -dimensional glasses include a red -blue color filter on the left and right, a different polarized lens on the left and right, and a shutter that matches the frame frequency of the image on the left and right. At present, a method of gaining more natural three -dimensional visuals, which is also called three -dimensional video without glasses, has been researched and developed.
[2] Immersive binaural sound
It is a sound that allows you to listen to three -dimensional sounds that can be felt in front and rear, left and right, and upper and lower sound images and the spread of space with headphones and earphones. Immersive sound can usually listen to multiple speakers with three -dimensional multi -channel acoustic systems with three -dimensional arrangements on front and rear, left and right, and up and down. Multiple mono signals that make up this three -dimensional multi -channel sound into a binaural signal of 2 channels using HRTF (head communication function) according to the three -dimensional direction of each mono signal, based on the listening position. (Binaural rendering) The sound of the Immersive binaolal sound is.
[3] ICA (International Acoustic Society)
ICA (International Congress on Acoustics) is the International Science Council to promote international development and cooperation in all fields of acoustics. The first was held in Delft, the Netherlands in 1953. Since then, it has been held all over the world since then, will be held last time in Korea in 2022, and will be held in New Orleans, USA in 2025.
